Musician LaFrae Sci LIVE!

Rich Johnson  00:16

So my name is Rich Johnson. I’m an interior designer here in Dayton. I lived and worked in New York for about 25 years, and I relocated here a few years ago, and one of the first people I met was Dana Wiley. And so on behalf of Dana and her gallery, I want to welcome you here tonight. We also wanted to thank culture works and also the hub. This was a last minute change, relatively speaking. So thank you to them for letting us use the space and for making it happen. And without further ado, I’ll turn it over to Rodney, and he’s going to introduce la Fre and we’re in for a great show. Thank you so much for being here.

Rodney  00:50

Well, everyone, thank you all for coming out to Rodney vielson, Oh, I love it. That’s what I love about is live and real. Well, everyone, welcome to Rodney feels inspired by podcast by think TV with it’s a production of think TV and cet Connect. We’re local, local PBS affiliates, and we cannot thank the Dana Wiley Gallery and the epic group culture works and all of you for taking the time out to come and listen to really, really lovely conversation I’m going to have with this fabulous person. So here we go. This is the phrase ski. And those who may not know who she is. The Fray is a an award winning musician, educator, big thinker, and I big hearted, passionate. And when I tell you that this woman has beats and grooves, she has beats and grooves, and I’ve known her for a while. I’ve known I realized we collaborated on a project together in 2013 with city folk. We were talking about it upstairs, and just her love and passion for music, and her love and passion for getting other people to be inspired by music has made an impact and impression on me. It’s a joyous friendship. So we’re gonna have this conversation today. So without further ado, this is the phrase key everyone give it up. Thank you. Thank you, Rodney. Oh, I love it. So going back, we gotta go way back. It’s almost like we’re going to let you know the time machine. Okay, we talked about it upstairs. You’re Not You weren’t born in Dayton, but you were raised in Dayton. Explain that story to folks so that people understand. Sure.

LaFrae Sci  02:42

So my father was stationed at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, and my parents moved to Beaver Creek, Ohio and still live in the same house in 1972 and I did graduate. I went to Carroll. I graduated from Beaver Creek High School, and I actually went to prom with rich.

Rodney  03:08

There is one degree of separation in this town,

LaFrae Sci  03:12

which was awesome. And yeah, so I’ve my mother was the director, curator and Site Manager of the paulins Dunbar house for 20 some odd years. So I grew up basically over on Dunbar. So yeah,

Rodney  03:35

you grew up in Dunbar. So I’m very curious, when did the music bug? When did that? Like you said, This is me. Like, I mean, I’ve always known you as as this musical entity, but when did it? When did it take hold? I’m kind of curious.

LaFrae Sci  03:54

Well, it’s interesting. You described it as a bug. I truly believe that we are all musicians, and that everyone is a drummer and a vocalist, and this whole American Idol thing really just kind of did us a disservice. We all have our own voices. We all have a sense of rhythm and timing or not, you know. But even so, there’s different types of grooves, and I want to say that I definitely artistic expression was nurtured. I’m grateful for that in my family. However, I also have some memories of like, oh yeah, that’s what I want to do. First of all, DCDC used to be, I mean, back in the day, day, day, way back in the day, DCDC used to be over on third, Third Avenue. Yeah, sorry, I’m getting avenues and streets. It’s a New York thing back on Third Street. And my mom actually taught technique classes at DC, DC.

Rodney  04:56

I didn’t, you know, that’s why I discovered that I realized, like, Oh

LaFrae Sci  04:59

my god. Yeah. Well, Mom went to Hampton University, one of the historically black colleges, and studied dance and choreography, and so that that’s that’s a big thing for her. And so I remember being in the DC, DC studios when mom was teaching, and there was drumming, and watching the drums and kind of being like, Yo, yeah. Yeah. And I know my mom really wanted me to dance, but it was the drums that spoke to me, and then another moment when I really was like, I can do that. I I graduated from Oberlin, but I had a break, and it was bit of a breakdown, because I was studying something that I wasn’t passionate about. Okay, so they invited me to not return.

Rodney  05:48

I love how you got an invitation to say thanks, but no thanks,

LaFrae Sci  05:51

but they invited me. They invited me to take a pause and to not return with an opportunity to try to fight it, but I didn’t, and I moved to Dayton. I used to live on riverfront terrace. John and Don were my landlords. Oh my

Rodney  06:10

gosh. And if you John and Don are Don hagelman and John Rodriguez. John Rodriguez was phenomenal ballet teacher. He was my ballet instructor Emily’s ballet instructor as well. I mean, he taught all of us. And Don Hagerman was this amazing musician and advocate for people to be artists. I mean, what a cool they were a cool couple.

LaFrae Sci  06:33

They were a fantastic couple, and they lived on the Riverview terrace. It was a repurposed firehouse, yes, and it used to be the Jane Reese house, okay, so right across the street were some buildings, and they would rent to the young dancers, but I had met them, and I moved in $85 a month. $85 a month. I actually was working as a custodian at the Victoria, and then I got hired as the box office manager for city folk. And then city folk really blew my mind, because, I mean, look, in one year, I got to meet Shirley horn, Jay mcshann, the leaders Sister Carol, you know what I mean. Here I am this young, impressionable, and the leaders was basically art ensemble of Chicago, plus and minus a couple members. And I remember the drummer, Don Moyer. I was standing looking through the curtains at the Victoria, which everybody knows it’s the victory. Come on, it’s a victory. It’s the Victoria. And, yeah, it was a whole thing. We were like, what? But, and I watched, and I thought to myself, I can do that. So that those were some moments that I remember. So

Rodney  07:58

I’m kind of curious, like, what was the thing that Oberlin just said to you, you should take a pause on that you were pursuing, and when why I you

LaFrae Sci  08:07

know, I really wanted to be creative. But I mean, naturally, my parents really wanted me to do something practical. And even though they nurtured my creativity right, they wanted me to have something to fall back on right, and that’s love, right? That’s love. And so I was studying Political Theory and Economics, and I just, yeah,

Rodney  08:33

political science degree, yeah, just letting, you know, dance, yeah, yeah.

LaFrae Sci  08:38

So same thing. It just, it really wasn’t doing it for me. And I think coming home and kind of taking a pause and then seeing all the great art first hand. And between what was going on with city folk, the National Folk Festival when they brought that here, and DC, DC was also at 126 North Main at that point. And then, you know, Memorial Hall was hopping. There was lots of stuff happening. I mean, Sweet Honey in the Rock, rock in Memorial Hall on the regular. So, I mean, this was, this was inspiration,

Rodney  09:13

yeah, this is the, this is the the ground Central, Jerry Jellie. We were having Jerry Jellie chilies. Oh, yeah, of our first like, concerts, yeah, jellies and so it’s kind of interesting to be in a community where you’re so surrounded by art from every literally, the phrase art from every angle, yeah, is really true about Dayton, Ohio, and a lot of Ohio cities kind of are jealous of the fact that you could just walk into having a conversation with La fray, or look at art, or see dance, or run into artists on the street, and so, yeah, it’s like that had that just must say. So what was your first gig that came out of like you got the like you’ve gone through all this, and you realize Overland is not your thing. Political Science is not your world. I get that, yeah, what was your first gig?

LaFrae Sci  10:04

I was doing a lot of sitting in. There was a drummer who used to teach at Howard that I started taking some lessons with, named Lee McKinney, and which, who I think is in Yellow Springs, and still doing some teaching and maybe some at UD or something. I took some lessons with Lee, and I was sitting in a lot of places. The Night Owl used to have open kind of musician nights. And then I decided to go back to Oberlin. I was already halfway, you know, I saw that there’s a big church hill quote as I was walking, so I was already halfway through hell, so I had to keep going. So I kept going. I finished the degree, but the carrot at the end of the stick was the fact that I would on graduation day, I told my mom I was going to continue to pursue music professionally in college, I started playing around Cleveland and Pittsburgh and Detroit. Wow. Yeah,

Rodney  11:06

you see, you were gigging. Yeah, I was gigging. Yeah, that you were really, you were, you were serious about it. Now, I mean, you know, it’s the thing with her parents, where they when you finally tell them, This is what I’m going to do, there’s a reaction. I mean, what was like? My parents were quiet. I mean, I’m a ballet dancer now. Yeah, it’s all good.

LaFrae Sci  11:28

I mean, I mean again, it’s love, and we definitely, I mean, rich knows I have a dramatic family. We’re definitely on the drama side. And I, I literally put my arms on my mother’s shoulders and looked her in the eye and said, I can do anything I want now, right? Because law school was what was supposed to be next. And I said, give me five years. Give me five years. And and I went to start playing gigs. And of course, you know, I did not go to law school.

Rodney  12:00

Law School’s loss, because you are you can you make convincing arguments and so, I mean, especially in the art realm. So I for those to like to look at her extensive biography. You have played for some folks that I’m just kind of in awe of. I mean, played with some of the some of some jazz greats, some R and B greats, Nona Hendrix, The Nona Hendrix Experience. Oh, my goodness, Cyndi, Lauper, Nancy, Sinatra, with Morris. What I mean? There’s a moment I’m sitting like, what I mean? How? How does one gig as a professional artist, and you get into those circles that someone, of those that that level, says, Come on in, come play in our play, our playground plan, our stage play with us.

LaFrae Sci  12:48

So what happened was, what had happened? What happened? What had happened was I, I was in Cleveland, and I had the gigs that everyone COVID that were regular and paid the most, and I wasn’t 30, and I wanted more. I wanted to try to be a larger pond, a little fish and a big pond. So I moved to New York, and actually it’s kind of wild, because I was playing, and there’s theaters in Cleveland where they run potential Broadway shows. So it was, it really was, it was. It wasn’t the best show in the world. It was the Invisible Man, but it starred Jim Dale, who was awesome, and they all the crew was from New York, and they hired the pit musicians from Cleveland. So I got to know some people, and that led to an opening in a sublet in New York City at 100 and seventh and Broadway. And I hit the ground running. I moved to New York with a bag of clothes on the train with $600 and just immediately started sitting in a lot of places and giving my number to people. And this is, this is really wild. I was on my way to play a show at a club the St Nicholas pub at 140/8 and St Nicholas in Harlem, and I needed a new head cover for my snare drum, so I stopped at 48th Street, at Sam ash, and I went to the drum store. And the guys in the drum store were kind of geeky and kind of funny, and they were like, we really want to hear you play. And it was eight o’clock, and I think we started at 930 and so I was like, Well, I’m playing at the pub, like, I can’t stop you from coming. And they, they came to the pub, you know, because it felt weird like these guys were gonna follow me to this gig, you know. And I was like, do we take the train? Exactly? Is strange. Do we take the train together? I mean, they just sold me a piece of drum equipment, you know, but here’s where I’m going. They showed up. They stayed all night. Fast forward, the musical director, who was working with Pharrell, who had just left the Neptunes doing Kellie says record at the time, which was on Virgin Records. And okay, yeah, that’s on the list, yes. So the musical director for Kellie came in and said, you know, Kellie really wants a band with a woman drummer. And they were like, Oh, we just met this woman drummer. We just saw her play, and they gave my number. And that kind of started that whole thing so random. Or was it

Rodney  15:41

I kind of, I doubt it was random. The Universe said, Okay,

LaFrae Sci  15:44

that’s true. There are no coincidence. There are no coincidences. Yeah, so

Rodney  15:48

once that kicked in, what was it like to be in that go to have these band nerds or geeks, if we would like to call that, I don’t know if that’s PC to all of a sudden who like, said, Hey, here’s this, here’s a, here’s really cool, cool lady doing her thing.

LaFrae Sci  16:07

You know, in college, I had one professor, Jerry Brunner, who I really loved, and I did a one on one. We read a lot of Carl Jung one on one. I would, I would read it, and then go sit in his office, and we would have like an hour and a half of discussion. And I remember, you know, we read like memories, dreams and reflections and and so there was that, and that professor and I had a wonderful relationship. And when I graduated, I went to see him, and he looked me in the eye, and he said, very seriously, he said, follow your intuition. The universe is your guide. And true rewards were never spoken for me, and so I feel that I was definitely led to a lot of opportunities and experiences that I’m super grateful, grateful for, and led safely. So, yeah, I

Rodney  17:05

love that. And so because we talked about this upstairs, and that was one of the things that this leading intuition, I mean, you talked about, when you had an opportunity to you talked about, how do I phrase this little fish in a big pond? Ambitious, your ambitions. You know, that’s a thing for artists. You have this opportunity to see the golden prize. Is a conversation I had on a podcast with Hannah Bucha about not all, not all that glitters is gold. And so she’s talking about, it’s a struggle. She has an Oscar, but everyone thinks that she can only do superhero movies, but she is probably one of the most film literate people I’ve ever met. She has this vast encyclopedic knowledge of cinematic history, and so she could design anything. So you had an opportunity for that gold moment with a really big one named star

LaFrae Sci  18:07

signs at NDA. Oh,

Rodney  18:10

snap, okay, don’t talk about her, but talk about the experience leading up to her.

LaFrae Sci  18:15

Well, I think away from her, yeah, no, it was Beyonce. And, I mean, and the thing, the thing is, is that, you know, the way our society, you know, back to what I said about American Idol. Music is good. Music is bad. I have talent. You don’t. This is, this is what we do. We’ve compartmentalized creativity and left it to the experts, where really it’s all of our opportunity to just use our voices and tell our story. We each have a unique story to be told. And I’ve seen young people like write a song, playing one note on a bass guitar, and without any facility or knowledge of you know, the canon and 10,000 hours of expertise. So I truly believe in great expression, fortunately and unfortunately, I excel in performance. So I ended up on this path, and I realized when I got there that this wasn’t who I am, and this wasn’t what music was to me. For me, I realized, and it was crystallizing. It was a great process for me. Music is about healing. Music is about building community. Community. Music is about expression, not just entertainment, although that’s great too. So when I when I had the opportunity to play and with Beyonce, like there were so many challenges, and also all of my major label artists that I had worked with when I was touring, like I was in a bunch of countries, but only saw the hotel and the green room, and I realized that I wanted to see the world, and I. Isn’t going to see it in this way. And then, you know, I’ve always been a multi hyphenate. I call myself an imaginationist. So I’ve always hustled and been able to work wearing a lot of different hats. And it actually playing with Beyonce, I would have taken a pay cut, and it just wasn’t worth it to me. You know, in terms of, like, to me, being able to tell people I played with Beyonce I didn’t think would do anything for me,

Rodney  20:31

that makes sense. I mean, it totally does. I mean, and I understand that in my small version of it, yeah, in the sense of a lot of people didn’t understand it. I love the process of learning how to dance and learning choreography, and not necessarily the performance. Didn’t it wasn’t about the performance. That was the end note. It was. It was a voyage of discovery, of falling and almost dropping a girl or not being on the beat, and trying to figure out how to fit this and make it sing, how to make this dance come come to life that was more important than the actual performance. Stage of people go, you were wonderful. And I’m like, okay, that’s nice. I have more I had more fun figuring it out and my curiosity about how to embody movement. So, yeah, it’s not about the gold because it’s a pay cut. I mean, that’s a really, that’s a telling statement. A lot of people think, oh, it’s going to be this. They’re going to back up the truck and they’re going to back up. Oh no, oh

Outro Music  21:31

no.

LaFrae Sci  21:34

In fact, her dad was like, he they put us on a line and made us and gave us this lecture, and they were like, do you think your star, Beyonce, is the star? They were like, do you think you’re gonna make any money? Beyonce is gonna make the money. And I was like, What am I doing here? This is just not my vibe,

Rodney  21:56

and it’s okay, yeah, this is your vibe. Because so then

LaFrae Sci  22:01

the problem side Beyonce. The problem was me, I

Rodney  22:04

had to go, No, that’s I had to go, right? And that’s like, you know, much love to the beehive. We don’t want anyone writing letters, no.

LaFrae Sci  22:10

And this was back, this was back before that thing, yeah, this was the very first band solo for Spence, yeah, first band solo. So it was a different Beyonce kind of vibe. Oh,

Rodney  22:22

that’s Yeah, and we evolve, yeah, and she has evolved, but, but I love the fact that, but what knowing that, that crystallization of what you wanted versus what was given to you at that moment, did you said when we talked about intuition in the universe? What? What did the universe provide for you as the alternate pathway.

LaFrae Sci  22:42

It’s interesting. I made friends with a guy who was a natural bodybuilder who would train me for free, and then I started training people. And I was, I had about 12 clients at a gym that was walking distance from my house in Brooklyn, and I just, I sort of had like this. I don’t, I wouldn’t say I was depressed, but I just didn’t know what I wanted to do. But I really enjoyed the whole like fitness thing and the intensity of working out with weights. And so I did that for a while, and then I ran into some opportunities with State Department touring, and that opened it up for me. Yeah, talk about the State Department

Rodney  23:22

touring, because I don’t think people realize the State Department is in the art and cultural game. That’s that poli sci hat. There you go. Yeah, it is about the representation of democracy through art. Yeah, so let’s talk about that experience, because that’s an important experience for the United States and for the artists. Sure.

LaFrae Sci  23:39

Yeah. Well, back in the day, jazz was considered America’s Sonic secret weapon, and the very first jazz ambassadors were Louis Armstrong, Dave Brubeck and Dizzy Gillespie. And so these bands would go and play in areas where we just had very poor relations with other countries, and sort of start to build these connections and bridges. And so they changed the program to call from jazz ambassadors to American music abroad, and they started having hip hop and funk and jazz folk, all these different types of music. So what I really loved about it was I got a chance to spend more time in the country, on ground, on the ground, got a chance to meet people, got invited to dinner, got a chance to try the food. And then sometimes there would be a concert, and then workshops, or sometimes it would be workshops and then a culminating concert, and it would be this really amazing, like the community would get involved, and, you know, people would bring whatever, a pot or a pan and play, you know, just like just, you know, I remember when she. They had, I forgot what year it was. They had a horrible earthquake, and we were the first band sent in, and the theaters had had fallen down because of the earthquake. So we were in a library and there weren’t chairs, and there were people on the floor, and people were seated all around my drum set, and everywhere we went, there was just this, like music is lifting us out of where we are, because this is a really tough moment, and they hadn’t even done excavation yet. It was wild, like we couldn’t go down certain roads. Things were just ripped up. It looked like a Spielberg said, but, you know, it was unbelievable. Yeah,

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Rodney  26:34

Was the the art ambassador of the arts for arts abroad program is that what led you to the to the residency in Russia? Yeah, yeah. Okay, so this is like, see, we’re all global, global influenza, which I love, yeah.

LaFrae Sci  26:50

So some of the State Department people, I’ve always, I mean, if anybody here knows my mother, I’ve, I can’t always been able. I’ve learned from her how to express, inspire, pull energy in a room and get ideas across and empower and be of service. These are, these are things that were modeled for me and the State Department. People used to joke that I could build a workshop for red headed people with one arm born on Tuesday. So the State Department every embassy, or in every embassy, has a goal that they choose annually, and oftentimes it has to do with girls and women. And so some of the State Department people taught me how to apply for State Department grants, and I got a SAM number, and I turned I created a corporate structure called groove diplomacy, based upon the idea that a groove makes you move, and movement creates community unity and change. I got my own grants. I hired my friends. We would go in the country, hang out, play some shows. I got to pay everybody. It was beautiful. And one day I was doing a tour in Russia, and we were in Krasnoyarsk, Siberia, and it was my birthday, and the jet lag was ridiculous. But I stayed out because it was my birthday, and I ended up getting a ride home from the minister of culture because there’s no cabs. You have to call a cab. It’s not like New York, like I literally, I did go outside to hail a cab, and they’re like, What are you doing? I was like, I’m going back to my hotel. They’re like, let us give you a ride. So I started talking about what I do. I was teaching at jazz and Lincoln Center at the time. I teach improvisation. I work with young people, I write, I write for orchestra, and that conversation led to me being invited to teach master classes, which led to seven years of writing for an orchestra and also creating a small group, ensemble that played the major festivals in the region, these huge festivals, like 20,000 people on these amazing stages. And, yeah, I spent a lot of time in Siberia. I did because, see, the thing is, is that, and I know I’m going on, but the thing is, is that in Russia, at the time, the intellectual kind of things happened in St Petersburg and and Moscow in the larger cities, whereas we know that that the gulag, the the prisoners were sent to Siberia, so they didn’t invest in jazz. So I was the first person to teach jazz improvisation in Siberia to classically train kids, and it was the wildest thing, because people would say, like, I don’t like Americans, but I like you. And I’d be like, how many Americans have you met? And they’d be like you, or they. Would be like, or they would be like, oh, yeah, this music is a little bit less than one. One teacher didn’t want because they, you know, that Russian classical thing is very, you know, it’s real. It’s amazing. I remember walking through the conservatory and looking, I was like, All right, they were all Russian, like I, you know, I just had to make that connection myself. And so they, they would make, they would make fun of me and talk about me, but invite me back every year and pay me handsomely.

Rodney  30:38

They secretly, it was, well, you

LaFrae Sci  30:40

know what you were bringing to the table? Well, one of my favorite books that I actually wrote my first jazz opera about was a Russian book by bogakoff called The Master and Margarita. And the devil is a character in the book, and he’s got this whole like, beautiful thing that where he says, like, you know, you need me, right? You need me like you’re you would drowned in the naked light, like I bring the dark shadows. And you need that. What do you want a world with no trees and he’s got this whole thing? So I feel like I was the devil there, and and and so there we go. There we go.

Rodney  31:20

Seven years ago, so I was, and I alluded to this at the beginning, we had this lovely experience with city folk. It was like a full circle, because it was the with city folk. I was directing a show that was based upon what you had, I what you had submitted to city folk, I believe, or do they approach you about doing a combination of collaboration of dance and music, and it was Mary Lou Williams, and that’s how I was introduced to Mary Lou Williams. And you have not heard anything by Mary Lou Williams, you need to add it to your playlist. Yeah, it is phenomenal, but I remember that experience with you, so talk about from your perspective, because I know from my perspective, choreographing to it. And there were other people who choreographed as well. It was just joy, like, like, it was a voyage of discovery, discovering this music. But

LaFrae Sci  32:09

I mean, so there’s a I’m learning more and more. There’s a difference between interdisciplinary and trans disciplinary, right? And so the trans disciplinary is when people from all these different disciplines come together, and these things happen. That was a truly trans disciplinary experience. And I remember I was coaching jazz students from Stivers. And I actually, I met the keeper of Mary Lou Williams charts. His name was father, Peter O’Brien, just real quick, because this is, this is such a story, because Mary Lou Williams was the mother of bebop, so Thelonious Monk and Bud Powell and all the jazz people, after the clubs would close, would go to Mary, Mary Lou’s house, and she kept everything she would write things on napkins and Rutgers. Had her her archive. And I saw like charts where it was like bud monk Mary written in the corner, and she had two pianos in her house. And you know, a lot of those cats got into situations where their lives were cut short and and I think she hit a zone where she was like, Man, I’m not even feeling this anymore, like my people are gone. So she quit playing music, and she wasn’t Catholic, but she started going to church because there was this really cool priest named Father Peter O’Brien, and he loved jazz. And he told her, after a while, listen, Mary, you know, people need what you have like, why don’t you go back to music and write music for peace? So she started writing with peace as sort of her intentional point. And she wrote masses and more jazz. And I had met father Peter O’Brien, and was like, I would love to see these charts. And then my email blew up. He was just like, what’s your email? And he just started sending me all the charts. So I got to bring these charts to the kids at Stivers and and have them play this music and share this story and and there was I that was just fun. Did we perform at the Dayton Art Institute?

Rodney  34:25

No, we performed at Sinclair Community College. We performed, Oh, that’s right, still on staff at Sinclair, that’s right. And it was, and I loved it, because the music was so I created this world, and I love creating these circular patterns with the dancers and the movement, and to get the joy of transdisciplinary and collaboration, to create to live music. Yeah, you can’t beat it. Like, you can’t like, as a choreographer, you’re like, I can’t pass that up. And so, and then you get to work with this amazing lady, goes both ways. Now, yeah. This mutual attr